republican loses. thanks so much for watching. now it's off to denver where we hope you will join our broadcast tomorrow afternoon before the big debate. chris matthews and "hardball" is next. so does romney like you? let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. on the way to denver. but let me start with where we are this night before the first presidential debate. our late and much respected colleague tim russert used to say, numbers, numbers, numbers, and that's what this election comes down do, who gets that 270 electoral votes and who doesn't. what's fascinating this year is what numbers seem to matter most in deciding voters and how they do vote. two numbers jump out at me this election year. the first, which got famous months ago, is 1%.

that top, the people making the most, getting the best breaks on taxes and other things. the second number that just broke out recently is 47%. it's that part of america that mitt romney has dismissed as freeloaders, moochers, takers in his words. i'm joined by howard fineman with "the huffington post." also we have romney's -- let's take a look at this howard, romney's 47% comments had a lasting impact on his standing. "the washington post" reported just today, quote, in the two weeks since the surreptitious video of the remarks surfaced, they have pierced the national consciousness in a way few blunders do. in the closing stretch of the presidential campaign, the moment has become a defining element of romney's candidacy. new poll by pew shows how deep these comments penetrated. 67% say they knew romney made those comments. that's of the whole country. of those people, 55% said they had a negative reaction toward hearing them. the only thing in politic that

is is worse than voters deciding they don't like you is when voters decide you don't like them. howard, what a great turn of phrase by alex castellanos when voters sense you don't like them. >> well, here in colorado, chris, the obama campaign is certainly not letting people forget those comments from that private fund-raiser back in may. talking to people here, they say they're seeing that ad, seeing the obama ad, that highlights romney's comments over and over and over again in heavy rotation on television here in colorado, perhaps the ultimate swing state. so the obama campaign knows they've got a loaded weapon there and they're firing it time after time after time to much good effect from their point of view. >> chuck, i can't remember anything that's really resounded so well with one side against the other. i guess there was the dui charge in 2000 which was really a self-inflicted wound by one side. here again a somewhat self-inflicted wound although he

didn't intend anybody to know about it. this 47%, i think it's a bigger number than the 1% we talked about for the last year or so, the very top people. >> well, here is where i find it made a penetration. so one of the things we have done in our nbc/"wall street journal" poll, most of it comes out in a little bit, but we asked sort of the remaining undecided or sort of soft romney/obama voters, we asked them, tell us what is a hesitation you have about romney becoming president, what is a hesitation you have about obama becoming president? almost universally the hesitations on romney, even among voters who clearly sound like they're eventually going to support romney, is the idea that he's out of touch, that he seems to not understand what it's like to be a middle class american. and that's where, you know, this 47% alone wouldn't have had this kind of resonance if it hadn't been what has been a i would argue a six-month campaign by the obama folks starting with

tax returns. frankly, you had the republican primary candidates did it to him. you throw it all together, defining him as the out of touch rich guy. rick santorum did it during the primaries. the obama campaign has been doing it, and then 47% comes along and simply amplifies the narrative in a third party verification-type way, and you put the whole suit together, and that to me ishurdle right now for romney, the idea is he in touch with the average american. i think that's why he's stuck in the mid-40s. >> not everything he's said has been malignant but his cavalier way of saying let's bet $10,000 to gov perry or referring to everybody who might not have health insurance and need emergency care as living in an apartment. it's a view as if it's all urban people. it's not evil but it's a lack of perspective about life in the main american experience, howard. >> well, yes, and the obama

campaign very shrewdly and systematically from the beginning, as chuck said, has focused on what they were convinced was romney's big weakness, and it's turned out to be just that. chuck mentioned taxes. you mentioned the $10,000 bet. also bain capital, it was the obama campaign that so far has told the story of bain capital, not mitt romney. and what the obama campaign has said about bain capital has reinforced the same notion about a guy playing with big money who doesn't understand the average lives of average people. as i have said repeatedly on the show, that ad that they ran, that an ally of the obama campaign ran in states like ohio about a bain-owned factory that was shut down by surprise, continues to reverberate in the midwest states. >> okay. we're going to have new numbers from the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll later today. at our 7:00 edition. another recent national polls we have seen the race getting closer, even though obama's

bounce out of the convention is holding, he remains at near 50% in all our polls. what do you make of the situation now, chuck, going into tomorrow night's really important debate out in denver between the two candidates? how do you see the election standing now five weeks out? >> well, right now five weeks out if you can have a solid small lead, he has it, okay? he has hit what i think are his ceiling numbers, 49%, 50%, 51% in the state. hard to imagine in any of these battleground states with maybe the exception of ohio and iowa how he gets to, quote, 52% or even 53%. so he's at a ceiling. he's at about topped out. the question is how much coalescing happens around romney? i think you're seeing some of it now, and that's why he's popping among likely voters in particular. there's one other thing the obama folks have to worry about, we see evidence of it in our own polling, and it also explains why there's such a massive difference between registered voters back and forth between

obama and romney and the likely voters. there is still an enthusiasm gap that favors the republicans. the republicans are fired up to vote against obama. whether they're fired up for romney, forget that question right now. they're fired up to vote out obama. you don't see that among hispanics, not among young voters. that's still an issue the obama campaign has to worry about. >> okay. in swing states, of course, the obama campaign has bomb borded vote wers this powerful ad going over romney for his 47% remark. let's take a look. >> there are 47% of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. who are dependent on government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they're entitled to haek, to food, to housing, to you name it. and they will vote for this president no matter what. and so my job is not to worry about those people. i'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for

their lives. >> howard, i opened the show tonight with what we call our cold open. i said does obama like you? and there's a lot of people who are going to see that ad and say, i'm in that picture somewhere. i'm a veteran, i'm this kind of person, i'm that kind of person. am i in that list of 47%? the answer, i guess, is yes. >> well, the flip side of what chuck was talking about in terms of the still existent enthusiasm gap on the obama side, on the romney side i think mitt romney has kind of maxed out on the people who are going to vote for him because they're against obama. mitt romney's challenge in this upcoming debate and in the other debates is to show some sense of humanity and empathy that will get some people to vote for him on a positive basis. that's what's missing now. that's the 2% or 3% or 4% that he's missing that he's got to get. he's not going to get any more out of the anti-obama message. he's got to get it out of a

pro-romney message, which is exactly why the obama campaign is running that ad that you just showed in colorado and in the other swing states. >> yeah. >> hey, and, chris, let me amplify that. what's missing here for romney is he hasn't made -- you know, he can make the case that, hey, things aren't going that great. this is a weak recovery. he hasn't connected the dots yet and said it's obama's fault it's a weak recovery, and, oh, by the way, my way is going girlfriend us a strong recovery. he hasn't been able to give this slice of voters in the middle that belief that it's worth the risk to fire an incumbent. it is a high risk to fire an incumbent, and right now when we're sitting at a 50/50 on who better handles the economy, they're showing -- >> let me fight this fight. i think there's a real reason why he hasn't told us. it's not he hasn't thought of it. he knows we in the media want the answer. here is his problem. his number one goal or method for improving the economy are tax cuts, lots of them, across

the board tax cuts for the marginal rates. a big one down from 35% for the top rate down to 28%. but he won't tell us how he's going to do it. he won't tell us the big deductions he's going to kill. and to me that's the heart of what he's actually promising. howard, how can he tell us what he's going to do without killing himself politically by nailing these deductions? >> i don't think he can play stall ball for the next five weeks on that, chris. i think every debate moderator starting with jim lehrer tomorrow night is going to demand specifics in the way chris wallace tried to do last week on fox. and i also think that the numbers are emblematic of values in this case. people want to know about mitt romney. they're undecided. i disagree with chuck a little bit. i think people are prepared to blame the president enough to dismiss him if, as chuck says, they are secure about romney. it's that last piece that romney hasn't done, and forcing him to

discuss the details of his tax plan is not a way necessarily to win those undecided voters at this point because i doubt that many of them like the idea of a big tax cut for millionaires. >> what do you think, chuck, of george wills' column where he says america will advance when it learns how to fire a black president, an african-american president. we haven't advanced that far. what do you make of this comment in his column today? like the orioles fired frank robinson. >> i have talked to a lot of republicans who believe that they do believe that there is a higher bar in the minds of voters, and that there are some voters subconsciously who are saying, boy, you've really got to make the case. he's got to commit more fireable offenses. >> i agree with that. >> i know there's a republican belief in that, that that -- >> that makes sense. >> -- is out there. i have to say, i don't think it's as simple as somehow that it is about race with this, but

i can tell you this, there are a lot of republicans who will believe if obama wins re-election, that race helped him, not because it got african-americans out, but because there is a slice of white americans out of white guilt, if you will, that will re-elect him. >> that's what george will said today. >> -- from a lot of republicans who believe this. >> let's let that sit out there for a few days. thank you chuck todd and howard fineman. republicans in pennsylvania thought their new voter photo i.d. law would give the election to mitt romney are a at least give them pennsylvania. as one republican said, democrats would be too lazy to get a new i.d. card. he's a neat guy. today a state judge delayed implementation of the law until after the election. what a big victory for honesty and i think justice. i guess republicans are going to have to try to win pennsylvania the hard way, by getting the most votes. also, a lot of dnts think or hope that scott brown came on too strong in his debate last night with elizabeth warren. we'll go to the videotape and look very closely. look who has another

etch-a-sketch moment. mitt romney now says he won't revoke obama's two-year visas for qualified young illegal immigrants. well, maybe he's seen the polling on latinos lately which are devastating. let me finish with a behind the scenes look at what really happened at the great kennedy/nixon debates. you will love these stories i have dug up. this is "hardball," the place for politics. and cheese add up to 100 calories? your world. ♪ [ whispers ] real bacon... creamy cheese... 100 calories... [ chef ] ma'am [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. [ male announcer ] how do you make 70,000 trades a second... ♪ reach one customer at a time? ♪ or help doctors turn billions of bytes of shared information... ♪ into a fifth anniversary of remission? ♪

whatever your business challenge, dell has the technology and services to help you solve it. roun brown's in the national journal wrote the main reason oen is doing better in battleground zats has to do with his increase from white working women. keep in mind, back in 2008 nationally obama only got 41% of that group's vote. well, today in michigan 46% say they support the president. in florida it's 48%. nevada, new hampshire, wisconsin, and pennsylvania, hovers around 50%. in ohio and iowa, it's up to 52%. looking good for the president

with white working class women. what an interesting category to be moving ahead in. we'll be right back. and every day since, we've worked hard to keep it. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help people and businesses who were affected, and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open for everyone to enjoy -- and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. we've shared what we've learned with governments and across the industry so we can all produce energy more safely. i want you to know, there's another commitment bp takes just as seriously: our commitment to america. bp supports nearly two-hundred-fifty thousand jobs in communities across the country. we hired three thousand people just last year. bp invests more in america than in any other country. in fact, over the last five years, no other energy company has invested more in the us than bp. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. today, our commitment to the gulf, and to america, has never been stronger.

welcome back to "hardball." today we saw a blow to the nationwide republican effort to suppress democratic turnout. a pennsylvania judge blocked a strict voter photo i.d. requirement from going into effect before election day. judge robert simpson wrote in part, i am not still -- i am not still convinced that there will be no voter disenfranchisement arising out of the commonwealth's implementation of a voter identification requirement for the upcoming election. well, this was a blow for pennsylvania republican governor and the republican-controlled state legislature that championed it. the state's house majority leader mike tur xi, the top republican, left no doubt what the aim of the law was. let's listen to him in his own words. >> voter i.d., which is going to you a loy governor romney to win the state of pennsylvania, done. >> that's pretty authoritative. daryl metcalfe, who authored the

voter i.d. act, made clear he had no patience for voters without photo i.d.s. >> i don't believe any legitimate voter that wants to exercise that right and takes on the according responsibility that goes with that right to secure their photo i.d. will be disenfranchised. as mitt romney said, i mean, what, we have 40-some% of the people that are living off the public dole, living off their neighbor's hard work and we have a lot of people out there that are too lazy to get off -- get up and get out there and get the i.d. they need. if individuals are too lazy, the state can't fix that, but the process is put in place to get an i.d. card. there's a free i.d. available if somebody needs one. there's a process they have to go through. they have to present certain documents. that's the way it should be. >> you don't hear it as raw as is mosh often. ben jealous is president of the naacp who deal was this.

he took on the voter i.d. law in pennsylvania. tim burress, the pennsylvania democratic party chair, and katherine cowl tin-gonzalez. i know she doesn't outrank either of you but i want her to start because he's an expert. how important is this for the people who were trying to push this through and how important was it to defeat it in pennsylvania? >> this is huge. it's a great victory. the fight is still on. we've got to defeat this in the future in other states, but we've been fighting and winning in pennsylvania in taction and wisconsin against these restrictive photo i.d. laws. it's a great vintcation for the people of pennsylvania. >> what's the purpose? is it ethnic, partisan? who are they targeting? >> well, we only need to look fe facts. there's a disparate impact on the elderly, on students, on young people, and on african-americans and on latinos. that's why we're winning. we're fighting back and winning. >> bill clinton, who is very good at making things simple, as we know, he's done it again this summer, he said this was the

most blatant thing, he talked about the florida example, the most blatant k356r78 of voter suppression where he said they were shutting down sunday before voting because that's when black people go to church and go on the buses because they don't have cars. you're the expert. what does this mean to you historically that this has been stopped at least in pennsylvania. >> this is big. all voters in pennsylvania can go vote. if you have an i.d., you can vote. if you don't go one, you can vote. that's critical right now because as you heard tur xi say, they were trying to steal the race in the state and given what this state is, steal it for the entire country. but what this also is sort of in line with is that we're starting to turn the tied. you know, we've won in wisconsin. we've won in texas. we've got a republican governor in the midwest, snyder, to actually veto one of these bills. we got governor mcdonald in virginia also from the gop to say, don't even bring it to me or i will veto it. so folks are starting to come to

their senses and see that this isn't a republican thing, it's an extremist thing. it's really -- as so many have said, this is going back to a playback that was first written right after the civil war. >> what's this mean on the ground for people voting? i was worried about this law. now i'm worried people still think the law is in effect. it's called intimidation, not just suppression. >> it was a huge victory today, chris, like your other guests, and i think them for their partnership and i thank everybody for helping us to push this thing back past november 6th. our game now has transformed somewhat. because there's a portion of this that the judge allowed. that is that the government here in pennsylvania can still talk about the law even though it's not to be implemented. so our game, chris, has shifted. we're going to remind voters you do not need identification to vote because i suspect in the next five weeks, mr. corbett,

mr. romney, mr. turzei, mr. metcalfe and their friends will attempt to create confusion and chaos now that we beat this back. we're going to be just as vigorous now as we have been. your prior guest on the prior segment talked about anger. let me tell you something, chris, there's a lot of angry voters in pennsylvania. mitt romney and todd corbett for this chicanery. they're going to have a conversation with them at the polls on november the 6th. >> let me ask you, kathy, why did this creep up on so many people? i have been making some noise about it, but this is like a multistate thing, something like 20 or 30 states involved in this, all basically pushed by the republicans, all pushed to stamping down on the chance of minority people and older people to vote. clearly partisan and ethnic in nature. here we are, i may be the only person on national television yelling about this thing, but as bill clinton said beautifully it's blatant and yet nobody has been raising hell about it. >> that's right. we're in the nonprofit sector and we've been doing everything we can to fight back against the

biggest wave of voter suppression since 1965. these types of restrictions are like poll tacks and literacy tests. we need to fight back and keep on fighting back. we're very glad for the victory in pennsylvania but we hope that the justices around the country will change their mind. >> ben, you're in a hero's role in all this. i appreciate anything you do in for our country. i want to ask you something. this seems to be hand and glove with the same kind of dog whistle stuff they're doing to white working class voters. get them upset about welfare and food stamps so you get the blacks so they can't vote and the whites angry at the blacks so they will vote republican. it does seem like a two-pronged evident. >> that's right. and, you know, race has really been injected into this race in ways that are really insidious, and when you hear somebody talk about folks are too lazy and knowing who he's talking about are single moms who are raising kids who are working who may be in a county with no dot or in a county where the dot is open one day or may have a boss that if

they have to go back twice, and part of the game here in pennsylvania was when you went in for a free i.d., they ran you through all the hoops to see if you could get a dlbs and then if that filed, said, by the way, here is a free i.d. that's much easier to get. and, you know, it just -- look, guys, we got to get back to a place, and frankly past gop chairs like ken melman have talked about this, where we try to win on the ideas. where it's not about suppression, not about intimidation. just running an honest race and cutting bait with the nasty tactics they seem to drag out whenever they get nervous. >> let me ask jim burn, the chair 69 party, have the african-american community been emotionally responsive to this? did they know they were the target in large part of this effort? >> absolutely, chris. we were worried a year ago about finding something to motivate and excite our base, african-americans, students, seniors, hispanics. the president has been effective this year in doing that, but in a way i have to thank mr.

corbett and mr. romney and turzi and metcalfe for their candor. they called this thing what it was. it helped act as an accelerant. we knew what they wanted to do. like i said, we're going to come and send them a message on november the 6th. >> just remember who was the greatest reg star of minority voters in the history of philadelphia, frank riz sew. he had the nightstick to prove it. thank you, ben jealous. congratulations for the naacp's hard work. thank you jim burn, i guess it's a partisan victory in a weird way. most important katherine culleton gonzalez, keep educating us on these cases. up next, what did the far right think america would look like in 2012 when president obama took off? this is sci-fi. their wildest predictions couldn't be further from the truth fortunately. actually sci-fi tends to be true sometimes.

anyway, this is "hardball," the place for politics.

back to "hardball" and to the "sideshow." well, the campaigns for both mitt romney and president obama are trying to tamp expectations leading into tomorrow's debate while playing up the debating skills, of course, of the other candidate. one of romney's biggest surrogates went a bit rogue this weekend on "the daily show." take note. >> here is the great news for republicans, we have a candidate who is going to do extraordinarily well on wednesday night. >> oh, my [ bleep ], we got a runner, we got a runner! apparently only chris christie did not get the memo his party sucks at this. >> it's the restart of the campaign and i think you will see the numbers move back in another direction and the whole race will turn upside down. >> what you are you doing? if romney fails to meet those heavy expectations, he's going

to lose the general election and that's going to leave open 26 -- oh. the jersey is strong in this one. >> in political language the governor there was sandbagging. actually he was sandbagging. he should have been low balling, that's playing up the skills of the other guy claiming you have to chance. we have talked about how some republicans seem to be running against a president who doesn't actually exist suggesting that president obama is some kind of foreigner with hidden plans to outlaw guns and bring european-style socialism to the u.s. of a. well, back in 2008 focus on the family, a hard right christian group, sent a memo to supporters about what 2012 would look like if obama was elected. well, first a prediction about the boy scouts of america. here they are. the boy scouts no longer exist as an organization. they chose to disband rather than be forced to obey the supreme court decision that they would have to hire homosexual

scoutmosters. no, actually, the boy scouts are still going stlong. next, the prediction on gun laws. it is illegal for private stens to own guns for self-defense in eight states and the number is growing with increasing democratic control of state legislatures and govships. wrong. again, the second amendment is still intact and the number of new gun laws enacted by the obama administration adds up to exactly zero. finally, the prediction about how the president would respond to captured terrorists. quote, terrorists captured overseas are given full trials in the u.s. court system, and they have to be allowed access to a number of government secrets to prepare their defense. well, actually government secrets to prepare a defense, i don't think so. here is a secret for you, the top terrorist, osama bin laden, is dead. no doubt if the president wins re-election those and other far right scenarios will get a new luster for the second term. because fantasy leads to more fantasy. up next, the big debate last night between elizabeth warren and scott brown.

well, who won that one? that was a top of the card. who lost and what does it mean for the battle sfor the senate? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. if we want to improve our schools... ...what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated equipment? they can help, but recent research shows... ...nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. let's solve this. [ male announcer ] it started long ago. the joy of giving something everything you've got. it takes passion. and it's not letting up anytime soon. at unitedhealthcare insurance company,

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i'm mary thompson with your cnbc market wrap. the dow falls about 33 points. the s&p gains 1 and the nasdaq adds 6. oakmakers reported sales figures. fords were flat. holiday sales are expected to rise just over 4% this year. the smallest gain since 2009. and jap morgan shares ended flat despite becoming the target of a lawsuit by the new york attorney general's office related to mortgage-backed securities. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. now back to "hardball."

back to "hardball." it's one of the hottest races in the country right now with more people watching and more dollars being spent than any other senate contest around the country. and last night in massachusetts senator scott brown and harvard law professor elizabeth warren took to the stage for a fiery second debate. you wouldn't normally think of the home state of ted kennedy and tip o'neill holding a tossup race but roun is holding his own against warren. he must convince obama voters in massachusetts and obama is expected to win by double digits, to also vote for him, a republican. susan is a contributing editor to u.s. news and world ror and michael steele is the former chairman of the republican national committee, also an msnbc political analyst. i'm going to try to look at this down the middle. i saw the whole debate today. i think david gregory did a hell of a job. like a referee in a boxing match. each candidate had a tough moment or two. here is warren tripped up, i think, when asked to name a republican she could work with. just name a senator or any bunch

of them. here is what she said. let's watch. >> can you name some republicans in the senate today that you are able to work with on big issues, substantive issues, that the country faces. >> i think probably ruched lugar would be one -- >> he's not going to be there. >> he's not going to be there. >> who else could you name, senator? >> that is a problem. let me do this one -- let me -- >> just let me ask the question. are there any republicans that are going to be in the senate that you feel you could work with substantively and compromise with? >> look, it depends on what the subject matter is. >> what was the problem with naming a few others like, well, corker is pretty good. i didn't like the way he ran that complain. lamar alexander, lindsay graham. a lot -- saxby chambliss. >> i think the mistake was not -- >> she didn't have an answer. >> she named lugar. >> shehe's gone.

>> i think the mistake was saying there was literally no member of the senate i will not work with. wellstone and domenici worked together. ted kennedy worked with orrin hatch. the whole problem is that places like the sharks and the jets and i'm not going to play into that. >> she did seem to play into that. what do you think, michael? we're going to hit brown on something just as deep. >> i agree with susan on that, and i think it speaks to the overall tone in the senate and in the house, quite frankly, that you can't work with anybody. god forbid you actually announce ahead of time before an election that you intend to work with the other side to solve the nation's problems. i think she fell into that trap. i think susan had the right answer, the best answer would have been, i'm going to the senate to work on the people's business. that means working with everybody who is a colleague in the senate to solve the problem. so i'm not going to pick one side or the other p.m. i'm there to work to solve the problems. i think that would have put her in a better position if you push back -- if dached pushed back

and said specifically someone. then she could say, look, you're trying to divide me, divide my job up before i even get to do it. that's not how i'm going in to do and be a u.s. senator. i think that would have been a stronger answer. >> she could have mentioned susan collins from maine -- >> absolutely. >> other women. because women tend to be a little better at this as a general rule. >> lisa murkowski. >> brown, scott brown, he stumbled when asked to name a supreme court justice he admires. his first response is one that elizabeth warren may remind him of in the next month a lot of times. she was laughing when she heard his answer. let's watch. >> who is your model supreme court justice? >> let me see here. that's a great question. i think justice scalia is a very good judge. justice kennedy. justice kennedy is obviously very good and justice roberts. justice sotomayor.

i think they're very qualified people there who -- >> scalia and sotomayor don't exactly -- >> that's the beauty of it being independent. you can actually -- >> if you had to pick one -- if you had to pick one -- >> i don't need to pick one. we have plenty of justices up there and i'm proud of the ones we have. >> so do you like that slip and slide? e starts with one he knew he had made a big boner there. he had a big problem so he goes well, he worked his way over to sotomayor. >> i know. it was like he was trying to remember the names of the seven dwarfs. and he was trying to balance it out. i said scalia, now i have to say kennedy or sotomayor. he just -- >> he was heading left there, michael. he was skipping away as fast as he could from the most conservative guy around, scalia. >> that was an interesting moment. my takeaway was i wasn't sure if that was someone he generallied a myers and likes his jurisprudence and his mind and intellect or was it the first person that popped into his head. then he started scrambling.

look, if scalia is generally a guy that you admire, then state that and move on. don't be swayed by the boos in the crowd. again -- >> well, he was. >> if you're an independent -- he was. >> he didn't seem too independent there for a couple seconds. he didn't look too independent for a few seconds. he should have said i like scalia, i just don't agree with him. brown's tone, this is a little question of gender poll tase perhaps. drew some boos when he responded to her criticism of his record on jobs and the economy. look at this interesting moment that has two sides to it. >> she's obviously misstating the facts. these were rejection by both democrats and republicans, professor. it wasn't a -- if you're going to comment on my record, i would at least have you refer to -- >> can we just -- >> excuse me. >> if this is going to be -- >> go ahead. >> i'm not a student in your classroom. please let me respond, okay? thank you. >> why, susan, do you think the

crowd had that instinctive reaction because i'm not sure. they didn't like it. >> there's been an undercurrent involving gender in this whole campaign and it's not just coming from brown. the profe professor warren. she's a scolding schoolmarm. >> i think she just got it. it's not the professor. that is nongender specific but when you say a student in your classroom, that does sound like miss jean brody kind of talk, like he's talking about somebody in a high school, a woman teacher. i heard it. i don't want to jump on it because i don't dislike this guy, scott brown, but i do think that's going to hurt him. >> i don't know if it will hurt him so much. i get the point here about how that may have sounded, but, you know, look, elizabeth warren is a player now. she's like a lot of other women who have cut a path in politics. she's doing that, and she's done so very effectively. i think we really kind of need to grow up about how we treat women in politics. everybody knows something that is ma soge nis or condescending to the point of being offensive.

i think that doesn't get close to that. >> why do you think the audience roared at that one? >> i think -- that's probably more political as opposed to anything having to do with gender. >> you guys handled this really well. it's a tough call. i think this race is really close and i don't think that debate made it any less close. thank you susan milligan, and michael, as always, a fair guy. up next, another etch-a-sketch moment for mr. mitt romney. he's flipping. he says he won't revoke obama's two year old visas for young immigrants. he's flipped so many times. anyway, this is "hardball," the place for politics. there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%. both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%,

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we're back. mitt romney has lived up to his reputation as an etch-a-sketch candidate, a flip-flopper, and here we have another example. wait until you catch this one, immigration. just yesterday romney told the denver post, scene of the new debate tomorrow night, that he wouldn't revoke the visas, the new ones, that the two-year visas, president obama has granted to some young illegal immigrants. in june he said the people who have received the special visa that the president has put in place should expect that the visa would continue to be valid. i'm not going to take something that they've purchased. before those visas expired, we will have the full immigration reform plan i have proposed. compare that to what we heard in the primary campaign about young people here illegally. let's watch that. >> when i was governor i took the action of 'em powering our state police to enforce immigration laws. when you were governor, you said i don't want to build a fence. you put in place a magnet to

draw illegals into the state which was giving $10,000 in of tuition credit to illegals that come into this country. >> even the lingo he's using, the derogatories, illegals, as if they're not people first. we m is the president for the center for american progress near rattan den and analyst ron reagan. it seems we have been together watching this for months, the evolutionary nature of this candidate. when he's running against people he would like to get to the right of, he uses terms like illegals. he said you're a magnet. wrer not going to have any of that. no 1i678 think, no empathy, nothing. screw these people, kick them out of the country. have them self-deport. now he's decided when the president when he's running 70% among hispanics, he might like a piece of the action. >> that's exactly right. this is the slow motion or maybe not so slow motion pivot that we all knew that romney was going to try to make. you can almost hear the graphite sand or whatever it is in the

etch-a-sketch shifting around. it seems like only yesterday, and maybe it was only yesterday or the day before, that this is a guy who was for his immigration policy was basically self-deportation. that's a polite way of polite w make people's lives so miserable that they will flee the country by jumping back over the wall. but now he's a friend of the illegal, as he put it. >> friend of voters, as i put it. you say you say neither, i say neither, but he can sing it to himself. the interesting ning about this is there was some of romney's advisers, off the record, but when he gets in a situation, he really says what that group wants to hear. >> it's called pandering. there's a word for it. >> like you said, he's in colorado -- >> but for us, there's a thing

called as tape. mitt romney poiptded to his massachusetts health care plan as evidence of his empathy. a big word for him right now. let's watch. >> throughout this campaign as well, we've talked about my record in massachusetts. don't forget, i got everybody in my state insured. 100% of the kids in our state have health insurance. i don't think there's anything that shows more empathy and care about the people of this country than that kind of record. >> there is he, dr. feel good. but three days earlier, catch this. >> we do provide care for people who don't have insurance, people -- if someone has a heart attack, they don't sit in their apartment and die. we pick them up in an ambulance and take them to the hospital and give them care. and different states have different ways much proviof pro that care. >> reporter: that's the most expensive way to do it, emergency rooms. >> different states have different ways of doing that. >> ron, i don't know where to start with this guy. first, he wants empathy for

creating a wonderful health care plan that covers about everybody out there, 97%. and then he says, dump them in the er. which is it? >> you don't know where to start with that. it's so empathy attic of him to provide health insurance for everyone in the massachusetts but it wouldn't be for him to provide it to the other 49 states. >> go to the er. >> of all the stupid things you can say about health care in the america, it has to be in the top five stupid things, people can go to the emergency room to get their care. yes, let's give the most expensive, least practical care possible. that's a great idea. >> and sit there for a couple hours. by the way, i love the fact everybody that doesn't have health insurance lives in an apartment. i mean, there is a weird urban view of things. there's probably people living all across this country, in every kind of housing, rural, suburban, sometimes urban, that don't have health insurance. don't you know that? >> i think you could say many

things about mitt romney but in touch with struggling americans is not one of them. the issues on health care -- >> right wing or a flipper? >> you know, i think the fact that you have no idea what he'll say next week is a big challenge. >> that's my big question, too. maybe we'll find out tomorrow night. you'll be watching, ron reagan, you'll be watching. when we return, let me finish with a pair of presidential debates that changed everything and what happened behind the scenes of those debates. i have some scoop about richard nixon and jack kennedy behind the scenes in those debates. when you take a closer look... ...at the best schools in the world... ...you see they all have something very interesting in common. they have teachers... ...with a deeper knowledge of their subjects. as a result, their students achieve at a higher level. let's develop more stars in education. let's invest in our teachers... ...so they can inspire our students. let's solve this.

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let me finish tonight with this. jack kennedy was deadly serious about his four great debates with richard nixon. a week before the first debate he arranged a secret debate with don hewitt, who he knew would be broadcasting the debates. where do i stand, he asks you, trying to get straight on his positioning of the big night, the feel of the whole thing? when kennedy and nixon arrived at chicago studio the night of the debate the democrat grabbed another edge. he knew his rival had spent many days in the hospital nursing an infected leg wound. now he could see how awful nixon look and this triggered the historic battle of the makeup. kennedy had been in california and working on his tan. nixon always trying to match the guy who had come to congress with, just after world war ii,

also declined makeup. bill wilson, serving as jack kennedy's media adviser described what came next. ted rogers said, when's your guy going to get some makeup on? rogers was wary. nixon's not going to get his makeup on until jack kennedy says. i said, it looks like a mexican standoff. that's how it happened. when he got kennedy alone in his green room, wilson put makeup on him. nixon's guy ran down and got a product known as lazy shave, known as beard stick. he called frank stanton head of cbs news into the control room to see the stark disappearance of the candidates. he called ted rogers and said he was satisfied the way nixon looked. that's not the way the rest of the country saw it, when nixon

started sweating through that beard stick. the next venue was nbc studios where we produce "hardball." wilson arrived with the kennedy brothers to figure out something was up. someone set the temperature to freezing. felt like a meat locker. jack said, what the hell is this? wilson remembers racing down to the basement looking for the air conditioning unit. there was a guy standing there that ted rogers put there for nixon and he said, don't let anybody change this pip said, get out of the way or i'm going to call the police. he immediately left and i changed the air conditioning back to normal. wilson understand the game and how it was going to be played. the candidates had their jobs to do, so did their handlers. he said his opponent, he said, he wanted to keep his job because of the screw-up that happened in the first debate. this is what goes on in politics. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now.